Question about camping and watercraft occupancy

[figgins]

I have a couple of questions about the tourney. 1st: The camping rule. I want to camp when I travel to fish in the Charlotte stop but the campground I have found is actually where I want to TAKE OUT on the afternoon of the tournament. I want to shuttle to the put in that morning (5 miles upstream) and float back to the campground. Is this the intent of the rule? I feel like the intent is to keep people from putting in and floating downstream prior to legal fishing time. 2nd: Watercraft. My wife usually floats with me on the river and she has decided to float in the tourney. I dont think she will compete but simply be along for the ride. Will there be any problem with this? I will be taking out my x2 man toon.

[blake]

No1. is fine. For safety reason, tournament doesn't allow you to launch any sooner than 1 hour before sunrise. (ie no camping out over the fishing spot)

No2. was fine last year, especially the casual division. Being that their is no casual division this year, I don't really know. Biggest issue is advantage that you could have (if your wife rowed while you fished the entire time). Rule no 1 and 17 should apply: http://www.riverbassintrail.com/about/rules/

I am sure there are corrections to be made to the rules, so they will probably put a qualifier for situations like yours. I also noticed they talk about the casual division, which no longer exist.

[figgins]

Biggest issue is advantage that you could have (if your wife rowed while you fished the entire time

HAHAHA, I wish she would! :D

[LowHybred09]

I would like to see the camping rule explained a little better. But I don't think we'll camp since it upset some riverbassers last year.

[Bruiser]

Drew's in WI with JK at Canoeacopia, but he was able to provide some clarification about the rules and these two questions.

No. 1 is fine. The intent behind the camping rule is to keep individuals from accessing the river the night before and camp on the bank or an island that is normally mid-float to get "ahead" of others or 'camp out' on a prime location. You can still camp at the put-in or take out provided it is legal to do so.

No. 2 is fine as long as both individuals are competing in the tournament as a team or as individuals. It is not OK if only one person is competing because in theory the person competing could have an advantage over others because the non-competing person could be controlling the boat the whole time while the other just fishes. Figgins, I understand that would not be the case with you, but others could use it to their advantage and that would make it unfair. Your wife is free to paddle along side in a separate boat.

The rules will be corrected or tweaked soon to reflect these situations.

[LowHybred09]

I am planning on following the rules but I have a few questions about the logic behind this rule decsision.

What about people putting in on someone's private land "mid float"? How is that any different? If camping "mid float" is off limits then so should putting in on a friends private land. Everyone should be limited to public boat ramps if that is why the camping rule was made. How can you distinguish what is considered "mid float"? There is no rule that says how long a float has to be so if I legally put in 3 miles from a take out instead of 6 that's a choice I make and would be considered strategy not cheating.

Also, people who start at what is normally a take out and paddle up, which I personally saw several do last year, are trying to get to prime areas ahead of others just the same as a person camping "mid float". As long as you enter legally and aren't on private land, camping on an island can still be a put in and would be legal by the wording of the rule. For Example: Giles Ferry on the upper ocmulgee would be considered "mid float" but is public. So if I put in there and camped I am still following the rules. Just seems to have to much grey area to me.

[figgins]

I have to say that in my case I only own one boat suitable for the class III rapids Id be fishing in and even if I did have two boats, my wife is not experienced enough to float the water on her own. With this being said I will not be competing in the tournament. I thought the tournament was supposed to be about fellowship and spending time with friends/family on the water but yet this rule will not allow us to go. As made known multiple times the winners are subject to a lie detector test. Why would anyone cheat. I would expect the rules to state that the competitor must be in command of his/her own watercraft unless competing as team and only as a team. But not to allow anyone to ride tandem ruins it for me.

[TurboGTi]

You'd be surprised how many would cheat if they could IMHO. Maybe not the majority of the guys on this forum, but the tournament isn't limited to members of this forum.

[Bruiser]

LH, I agree with your assessment of the no camping rule. It creates a lot of gray areas and you mentioned a few great examples, especially concerning individuals who have private access.

[JustFishin]

Why would anyone cheat.

Weak character! One of the things that define character is doing the right thing when nobody in looking.

Tournaments can be a lot of fun for some folks - but when participants define themselves only by "winning" and bend the rules or actually cheat to do so it spoils the experience for all of us. Hopefully, the RiverBassin trail will stay clean and provide years of enjoyment for those that wish to participate.

[figgins]

I guess the point I was trying to make is that if rules are in place to keep the playing field even for all the anglers, and there is a lie detector test, If if someone does cheat they will be caught. I understand not wanting competitors to be shuttled along while they fish, but that, in my opinion, is resolved by adding the rule that anglers must paddle the watercraft they are fishing from on their own. Not banning all anglers from bringing along a companion to enjoy the experience with. Lets face it, the winning anglers will always have had an advantage over the losers or they wouldn't be on top! I am assuming a winner camped on the river last year and now no one can. Im sure camping would be the deciding factor, Not his/her fishing ability. I was interested in this tournament because of the fellowship and comradery. If I cant take my wife and share the experience with her that takes away from the experience for me. I would rather enjoy a weekend on the water and not compete than compete and neglect her. To each his own. Good luck to all.

[Lawnmowerman]

I guess the point I was trying to make is that if rules are in place to keep the playing field even for all the anglers, and there is a lie detector test, If if someone does cheat they will be caught. I understand not wanting competitors to be shuttled along while they fish, but that, in my opinion, is resolved by adding the rule that anglers must paddle the watercraft they are fishing from on their own. Not banning all anglers from bringing along a companion to enjoy the experience with. Lets face it, the winning anglers will always have had an advantage over the losers or they wouldn't be on top! I am assuming a winner camped on the river last year and now no one can. Im sure camping would be the deciding factor, Not his/her fishing ability. I was interested in this tournament because of the fellowship and comradery. If I cant take my wife and share the experience with her that takes away from the experience for me. I would rather enjoy a weekend on the water and not compete than compete and neglect her. To each his own. Good luck to all.

That would simplify everything, and all could enjoy the great outdoors, for the fellowship and the competition.

[Ocmulgee Tim]

If you are willing to camp on the river after going to a mandatory 7:00 pm meeting. Which means you have to be on the river after dark and set up camp. Well some of us will go to more trouble than others. Yea I camped last year on public property,and anybody could have.What if you are camping on the river in a public camping area. I'll be camping at FROC for the Columbus tourn. Is that legal or illegal ????? What is the advantage of camping ? You cant fish until daybreak so as long as that rule is followed all should be good. What if I stay at my buddies house that lives on the river ???? Basically I highly disagree with a YOU CANT CAMP ON THE RIVER RULE. Hate to be harsh but somebody at the Macon stop last year was a sore loser and a crybaby IMO. That rule needs to be removed !!!!!!!!!!!

[SwampCobra]

Hate to be harsh but somebody at the Macon stop last year was a sore loser and a crybaby IMO. That rule needs to be removed !!!!!!!!!!!

Heeeeeey, I wasn't even at the Macon stop last year Tim. LMAO :)

DM<

[lilpdriverrat]

I don't believe there is a rule against camping at the river, you just cannot access the river until the day of the tourney. I may be wrong, but that is the way that I interpret the rule...similar to an off-limits time for many lake tournaments.

[Lawnmowerman]

I don't believe there is a rule against camping at the river, you just cannot access the river until the day of the tourney. I may be wrong, but that is the way that I interpret the rule...similar to an off-limits time for many lake tournaments.

Is this the way it was last year?
Especially if it's public land, I see no way you could/should be told where to put in and take out at. period
You can't fish before daylight, and that's enough. Cut & dry to me.
Don't turn this into more "competition" than fun, fellowship, and enjoying God's great outdoors.

[waderjon]

Don't turn this into more "competition" than fun, fellowship, and enjoying God's great outdoors.

Good one :D

[BasserDrew]

Just now catching up on some of this.

Figgins, I respect your wanting to take your wife and your decision to not enter even if you have to leave her. You're a good man. I can certainly run that wording by the rules committee but running tournaments for many years I can tell you that if someone came past you on the river and she had a paddle in her hand paddling to help go down the river and you happened to win, they may be a sore loser and want to complain that you had an unfair advantage. But, if she does absolutely nothing that is another story and like I said it could just be solved with a wording issue. It is very rare that this would arise anyway, so it could be something that can be tweaked. I'll see if anyone has an issue with it or can think of a reason that it could be a problem if we allow it, but the main thing is that she could literally do nothing in the boat as far as correcting, paddling or anything. It would almost be like you have to pretend she is not there.

On the camping issue we don't want people out there on the river at night for safety reasons - regardless if camping on an island or the river bank. The BASSMASTER or FLW tour doesn't let everyone go until the same time and we are going to follow those same guidelines that have worked well for them for 30 or 40+ years now. There are also issues on many islands of them being private and therefore the person would (possibly unknowingly) break the rules. Most people camp on islands all the time, but most of the time they are doing so illegal but the rule of thumb is "leave no trace" and no one is hurt. Well, technically that would be illegal since our rules state that all must access the river legally. Everyone was legal last year, and in my opinion read the rules very thoroughly and took advantage of them the best they could and that is what a smart angler should do. I would have done the same thing! But, many newbies or people that don't understand these issues (sometimes even one "side" of an island can be private and the other side public) could make the mistake. Its just easier to disallow it for both reasons above and avoid any drama.

You certainly can camp on the rivers edge at public parks you drive to, public accesses that allow it or your friend's land that he is letting you use. The Flint River Outdoor Center (FROC) as Tim mentioned is perfectly legal.

[BasserDrew]

And, any place like the FROC where you are legally allowed to be camping there is perfectly fine. And, the rules state you can access the water an hour before sunrise so you can still get pretty far down or upstream with that time.

So, for Charlotte you can access the river at 5:09 and make your first cast at 5:39am since sunrise is at 6:09am

[BasserDrew]

Talked it over and it made sense to tweak the rule about allowing someone on a two-man boat with you even if they are not in the tournament provided they are not assisting in paddling or in any other way to give the angler an advantage. Of course they can assist if there is a safety concern involved. This is why we have rule #1 in place in such a young tournament trail. It is family friendly and I would hate to see someone not have their friend, spouse or child with them (who isn't into the fishing part or just didn't want to enter), especially when they are gaining no advantage. Now, if they even help you tie on one lure then that is when you have broken the rule!!

[figgins]

Thank you Drew, I am glad to see you keep this a great opportunity for everyone to be able to experience. I wish It would have been clarified a little earlier so I could have continued my planning and made it to Charlotte but its better late than never. I will certainly be competing in upcoming tournaments now. Again I appreciate your understanding.